QUESTIONS TO ASK ADMIN

Hi, If you have any questions about the board or suggestions, or you would like to raise any concerns or other issues, please post in this section and I will get back to you as soon as I can.

That's better than the official board do!

I've made this comment previously but received no reply - so here goes.

That 'Join the Revolution' graphic you have at the top of the page is huge and far too big. It forces the important stuff off the bottom of the screen and makes using the Forum unfriendly.

Can it be changed?

yes, ill sort it tomoro.

cheers

That was a good shout, Haydock.

Is there any way to have it so the new posts are at the top of the posts, so we don't have to scroll down to find the new post?

It's bad enough now but should there be a thread with 10s or 100s of replies, it'll be a bugger to find the latest post.

Maybe you could brighten the page with a couple of the more photogenic players gracing either side of the banner. Maybe McCann and Hunt would be enough.

Sluffy has stated he has had 2 previous post removed........... can you please explain why this has happened...????

josh8 wrote:Sluffy has stated he has had 2 previous post removed........... can you please explain why this has happened...????

I would hope no one is being childish and removing posts because they've had posts moved at Burnden Aces...even moreso since Sluffy is a moderator and it is his job to do that or lose his position.

Wasn't the reason for coming here the LACK of moderation?

It is a common internet courtesy to return a link, ie if you ask a website to link to yours, then you are expected to return the favour.

Sluffy posted a link to BA on here, and I linked to bwfcboard on BA, but my link was removed. In return, I removed their link.
This was more about link swapping than about comment moderation.

Sluffy did not contribute to the board other than to link to burnden aces to ask people to join there.
I felt that it would be detremental to this boards chances of growing if we linked to BA without a return.

I will not remove any posts other than for this reason, everybody is welcome to their own opinion, even if it differs from admins opinion.

(severe breaking of the law will not be tolerated though, and pornographic content is not allowed either)

bigsamsarmyusa wrote:Is there any way to have it so the new posts are at the top of the posts, so we don't have to scroll down to find the new post?

It's bad enough now but should there be a thread with 10s or 100s of replies, it'll be a bugger to find the latest post.

YES, but what do you mean?

When you post a new topic, or reply to a topic it goes to the top of the forum. Does it not?

Oh you mean in each individual topic don't you. The problem with that is if you are reading the topic for the first time and you open it up to find that the last comment is first and the start of the thread is at the end you will have to go through backwards to follow the conversation.

If you open a thread and there are a lot of replies, just click on the highest page number to go to the latest few comments posted.

This should make it easier to find posts rather than harder.

If people do want it changing though I could make it so all of the replies to a topic appear in one long list. Would that help so you can just scroll to the bottom?

Let me know.

Haydock wrote:I've made this comment previously but received no reply - so here goes.

That 'Join the Revolution' graphic you have at the top of the page is huge and far too big. It forces the important stuff off the bottom of the screen and makes using the Forum unfriendly.

Can it be changed?

I changed it from "join the revolution", is the new one a better size? I will work on the graphic more when I get time, but is this ok for now?

Would anyone like to submit a graphic they would like me to use?

I like the updated header graphic. Well done.

Don't worry about what I said earlier about post arrangements. Leave it as is. I must have been shattered and didn't know what I was talking about.

bigsamsarmyusa wrote:I like the updated header graphic. Well done.

Don't worry about what I said earlier about post arrangements. Leave it as is. I must have been shattered and didn't know what I was talking about.

on the general chat page it puts topics with new posts to the top, in this forum thou (questions to ask admin) it seems not to be working, ill try to sort it out.

Admin wrote:It is a common internet courtesy to return a link, ie if you ask a website to link to yours, then you are expected to return the favour.

Sluffy posted a link to BA on here, and I linked to bwfcboard on BA, but my link was removed. In return, I removed their link.
This was more about link swapping than about comment moderation.

Sluffy did not contribute to the board other than to link to burnden aces to ask people to join there.
I felt that it would be detremental to this boards chances of growing if we linked to BA without a return.

I will not remove any posts other than for this reason, everybody is welcome to their own opinion, even if it differs from admins opinion.

(severe breaking of the law will not be tolerated though, and pornographic content is not allowed either)

This "common internet courtesy to return a link" you talk about does not include the right to be abusive to the site you posted it on nor critical on a personal level of the mods and admin who volunteer their time for free there too!

Your post was personal and offensive and it was for that reason and that alone it was removed – nothing at all to do with your link.

(Funny how you neglected to mention that!).

I also noted that my post was deleted several days after your post had been removed - and not on a 'tit for tat' basis as you somehow seem to be suggesting above.


I also find your following statement to be highly ironic too -

"severe breaking of the law will not be tolerated..."

There is of course only one law in this country and that is the law of the land - three of which you seem to pride yourself on breaking, namely -

The law that prevents you from running the Premier Predictions (copyright),

The law that prevents you from advertising streams to live games (theft of intellectual property rights), and

The law that prevents you from using as your own someone’s image (as you are now doing on your sites headline banner), (theft of image rights)


Seems to me this forum is not being founded on honesty, integrity or fairness and for those reasons I'm out!


PS – Wendy, I’m a Libran too – guess that’s why we both have strong feelings about fairness and honesty.

I did not make any personal comments about anybody.
That is a very unfair statement to make.
I simply made some suggestions that the board at BA was over moderated imo,
but also stated that I would respect the rules and try to get used to the new way of doing things.

seems someone doesnt like a new board going up?

I mean by severe law breaking, doing something which will deliberately damage the reputation of the site, ie posting illegal pictures or something similar.
I did not want to be tested out by somebody doing something silly like that so that I would have to backtrack and remove it. and then be accused of not keeping my word.
when i say i will not remove or edit posts i mean:
i will not edit posts that i dont agree with
i will not move or remove posts which i dont like
i will not ban things like discussing match predictions, (it is not against the law)
nor will i remove posts which link to external sites which may link to live streams,
i will not inerfere with the headlines or content of posts,
i will allow people to start a new threa if they wish,
i would hope people do not feel as though they have to suck up to me or agree with me to get their point across.

thanks for your post though sluffy

using the images in the banner, i will change this if it really needs it but you are being a bit pedantic are you not, and besides, is it any different to using it as an avatar?

your site regularly links to illegal highlights of games and similar, why do you do that?

do we really need to get in a war?

and what is your reason for coming here checking all of the time and your only contribution is to drive traffic to your site or have a go at me?

why?

well said jayjay......those are my sentiments exactly(suck..suck...lol)

jayjay23 wrote:I did not make any personal comments about anybody.
That is a very unfair statement to make.
I simply made some suggestions that the board at BA was over moderated imo,
but also stated that I would respect the rules and try to get used to the new way of doing things.

seems someone doesnt like a new board going up?

I mean by severe law breaking, doing something which will deliberately damage the reputation of the site, ie posting illegal pictures or something similar.
I did not want to be tested out by somebody doing something silly like that so that I would have to backtrack and remove it. and then be accused of not keeping my word.
when i say i will not remove or edit posts i mean:
i will not edit posts that i dont agree with
i will not move or remove posts which i dont like
i will not ban things like discussing match predictions, (it is not against the law)
nor will i remove posts which link to external sites which may link to live streams,
i will not inerfere with the headlines or content of posts,
i will allow people to start a new threa if they wish,
i would hope people do not feel as though they have to suck up to me or agree with me to get their point across.

thanks for your post though sluffy

I don't tell lies.

As for the Premiership Predictor - you could be right - it may not be against the law - but you personally would have to go to court to find out.

Here is a link sent to another forum last year that as been posted on the net for all to see -

http://ifootyapp.co.uk/public/fixtures_letter.pdf

I am aware that both Burnden Aces and Wanderers Ways have received the same correspondence from Data Co - and neither of the Admins at both the sites are prepared to take the chance of being prosecuted. It's simply not worth the cost and time involved.

It could all be a big bluff by Data Co - but are you willing to risk your own money to find out?

As for someone not liking a new board going up - I'm guessing you are aiming that at me?

If so I will point you to the fact that I was a founder member of Bolton Banter, helped to kick start The Wanderer and have been actively involved in the growth of Burnden Aces. I'm all for a diversity of views and opinions to be heard.

I personally think it is a pity that for a club of our size we can't have one all embracing forum, but clearly different sites have different views on things and as such I would rather spend my time helping smaller sites establish themselves than sit back and become part of the clique at more established sites. Just how I am I guess.

It is your site and you will run it how you want - but you will find the way you run it will determine what sort of members you will attract and retain.

jayjay23 wrote:using the images in the banner, i will change this if it really needs it but you are being a bit pedantic are you not, and besides, is it any different to using it as an avatar?

your site regularly links to illegal highlights of games and similar, why do you do that?

do we really need to get in a war?

and what is your reason for coming here checking all of the time and your only contribution is to drive traffic to your site or have a go at me?

why?

The difference between and image in a banner and an avatar is that the banner is an 'advertisement' for your site and thus you are using the players images for commercial benefit (ie building up this site) without their expressed permission. The image as an avatar is for personal usage and not for potential gain.

I am not being pedantic - you can do what you like - but Burnden Aces were contacted by the club and asked to remove the players images from the banners.

As far as I'm aware Burnden Aces (or any fanzine) is not breaking the law in showing match highlights as long as it does not host it on our own server. If the server on which it is being hosted is indeed breaking the law it will be shut down and thus the link on Burnden Aces will be removed at the same time also.

As for a war, I come in peace - I have always tried to be helpful and informative - may I say unlike how you have behaved at times on the Burnden Aces site!

As I've said previously, how you run the site will determine what sort of membership you will have - I visit all the Bolton sites - the two least regulated sites that you seem to want to emulate being the Bolton News forum and the recently closed 'Rival's' forum. Although I visit these sites for news and information, I would never seriously consider canvassing for their members to join Burnden Aces as the behaviour a large majority of them display would not be compatible with how we would wish to develop and run our site. Therefore you can rest assured I am not on the look out to entice away your members if you are looking to build your site in the same manner.

Finally for a site that prides itself in breaking the law and letting most other things go I am somewhat surprised that you seem to be unsettled by me simply viewing your forum!

Sluffy......The link you posted is a standard letter issued to scare people into buying a licence you don't need...and isn't worth the paper its written on...and definitely not enforcible in law....you sound to me like an intelligent guy... and also worldly wise.... therefor even as a layman you should know that law is actually determined by 'precident' and facts... neither which would be applicable to this letter...!
the precident set in 1959 on copyright to the football league would never be tested today.... as it wouldn't and couldn't win...therefor would never go to court...!

josh8 wrote:Sluffy......The link you posted is a standard letter issued to scare people into buying a licence you don't need...and isn't worth the paper its written on...and definitely not enforcible in law....you sound to me like an intelligent guy... and also worldly wise.... therefor even as a layman you should know that law is actually determined by 'precident' and facts... neither which would be applicable to this letter...!
the precident set in 1959 on copyright to the football league would never be tested today.... as it wouldn't and couldn't win...therefor would never go to court...!

I agree.

Thing is though I've not got the time or the money to fight it. If Jay Jay has then good luck to him - it will help all the internet forums if he did.

But just ponder this - out of all the letters that have been sent, in all the years they have been doing it (at least since 2000 to my knowledge) not one person ever stood up to them?

Apparently Yahoo is being sued over publishing the fixtures (although I have not heard anything about this story recently) -

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/markets/article.html?in_article_id=464994&in_page_id=3

Maybe the reason why nobody as taken them on so far is that no one is confident enough of winning and would face "unlimited damages" if they didn't!

Anyway, good luck if you do Jay Jay - you've got bigger balls than me!

hi sluffy,
thanks for your comments, they seem pretty fair and you back them up well,
i am going to try my luck at this forum and see how it goes, i dont witsh to attract a bad crowd in any way, and i hope i don not,
i am hoping to be more along the lines of 20 or so regular posters coming together regularly in the way i was used to on the bwfc board.

if we get more, great, less is fine, as long as there are enough willing posters.

if i have to introduce certain rules and sanctions over time then i will have no choice, i will also be willing (hopefully) to contest any threatening letters which i recieve.

i am glad to hear you come in peace and i hope we can leave the matter to rest for the time being.

you are welcome to contribute to the soccer thread if you wish to do so and even join the prem predictor too.

hopefully our boards can work in harmony, and i do not intend to entice anyone away from other boards even if it may have appeared that way in the past.

i originally set this up because the bwfc board closed and i was making a place for wanderers fans to continue where we left off.
i was never expecting it to even become long term but it seems to be turning into that so i am now developing a different stratagy and will be running the board in a professional way. it is very new at the moment though and i am investigating the current laws and allowances regarding content, copyright and other things so that i can run the board more appropriately and efficiently. at the same time though i would like to maintain a level of freedom for all users to enjoy.

I think that was a good response jayjay.... ! and I think its a good idea to carry on with this board.... I quite like sluffy..... he does post some reallygood stuff, so I shall still flit between the 2 boards just because I'm a nosey b*stard..... but unlike BA.... I feel being here at the start.... we can influence this board to better suit us......less moding and all that....!!

Look guys

If this Forum is going to degenerate into one as bad as Burnden Aces then I'll be off to pastures new!

I believe that Sluffy or Fluffy, or whatever his name is, is taking advantage of the freedom offered by this site to try to escalate his own (misplaced values) in favour of BA. I for one wouldn't mind if his comments are deleted - they are only creating an 'us' and 'them' feeling.

With regards to moderation though I would like to say that:

1) There is no internet law - there is no internet controlling body. And we don't want there to be. The internet is a place where anyone and everyone is free to create their own messages(s) to the World. So long as users understand the implications there is no problem. That said of course we have to do what we can to protect the innocent and the impressionable.
2) Nobody is going to 'police' the placing of links on sites. I've been the founder of a Forum for over 10 years - it gets 10000 hits per month and I've never ever been told or even asked by anyone to remove links.
3) Borrowing images from another site is not considered to be lawbreaking other than by the fanatics. There are some sites that state quite clearly that images are copyright and that should be respected - others are created for commercial profit, leave them alone too. In all other cases the ideal way is to approach an owner and ask politely if an image can be used. Likewise if the owner of an image you've 'borrowed' asks you to remove it, the request should be politely respected and the image removed.
4) Prem Predictor? The term prem predictor probably has intellectual ownership right. However, there is nothing to stop Jimbo calling his competition something like the bwfcboard fun football game - or something more original. Again, no-one is going to take the expense of suing a board because 20 guys are having a bit of fun!

Now, can we have some peace?

and so say all of us....!!!

josh8 wrote:and so say all of us....!!!

Ditto

Haydock wrote:Look guys

If this Forum is going to degenerate into one as bad as Burnden Aces then I'll be off to pastures new!

I believe that Sluffy or Fluffy, or whatever his name is, is taking advantage of the freedom offered by this site to try to escalate his own (misplaced values) in favour of BA. I for one wouldn't mind if his comments are deleted - they are only creating an 'us' and 'them' feeling.

With regards to moderation though I would like to say that:

1) There is no internet law - there is no internet controlling body. And we don't want there to be. The internet is a place where anyone and everyone is free to create their own messages(s) to the World. So long as users understand the implications there is no problem. That said of course we have to do what we can to protect the innocent and the impressionable.
2) Nobody is going to 'police' the placing of links on sites. I've been the founder of a Forum for over 10 years - it gets 10000 hits per month and I've never ever been told or even asked by anyone to remove links.
3) Borrowing images from another site is not considered to be lawbreaking other than by the fanatics. There are some sites that state quite clearly that images are copyright and that should be respected - others are created for commercial profit, leave them alone too. In all other cases the ideal way is to approach an owner and ask politely if an image can be used. Likewise if the owner of an image you've 'borrowed' asks you to remove it, the request should be politely respected and the image removed.
4) Prem Predictor? The term prem predictor probably has intellectual ownership right. However, there is nothing to stop Jimbo calling his competition something like the bwfcboard fun football game - or something more original. Again, no-one is going to take the expense of suing a board because 20 guys are having a bit of fun!

Now, can we have some peace?

No internet law eh?

Seeing certain people seem to be in denial about this , please find below the BBC's 'Janet and John' explanation of the internet and the law - maybe now it might dawn on you that freely posting anything you want on a forum or messageboard can sometimes be illegal!

Chances are that you probably will not get caught doing it - but breaking the law is breaking the law whether you get caught or not.

Oh and I still find it ironic that 'Champions of free speech' such as Haydock are the first to demand that posts like mine are 'censored' when they disagree with their views!

What internet law do I need to know?

Most people think that the law regarding online behaviour is vague and still developing because the internet is relatively new, but this is wrong.

Internet law deals with exactly the same legal issues as normal law, it's just applied to the different features of the online world.

Whenever you purchase, write or download anything on the internet, you are subject to exactly the same consumer, defamation and copyright laws as in the non-virtual world.

Who owns stuff online?

One of the most common misconceptions about the internet is that all material on it is freely available to the public.

Just like the real world, every image, sentence, and audio or video clip belongs to someone, and if you use it without permission you are breaking the law.

The high profile cases in the media are usually about pirated online music or videos but that doesn't mean that you can freely copy text and pictures.

If you started distributing the latest Harry Potter novel online you're just as likely to get in trouble as if you put the Harry Potter soundtrack online.

It's still practically unheard of for the end users of pirated material online to be prosecuted. Most media companies are targeting file-sharing companies like Morpheus and iMesh.

But as the technology to embed copyright information in text and pictures as well as video and music becomes more advanced, this could change.

Be careful where you visit
Absolutely anyone with the right knowledge and a bit of money can set up their own website, but that doesn't mean that what they've published is legal.

Amateur web editors create a huge majority of websites on the internet, and material on them can be untrue or even illegal.

Just because a site is available on the net, it doesn't mean that it is legal, and in some instances, such as child pornography, it can be illegal to view or even possess certain images - even if you didn't realise you had.

Also remember, just because something may be legal in the country where the website is hosted does not mean it's legal to view where you live.

You can also report any inappropriate content to the Internet Watch Foundation.

Consumer law
You should be aware that as a consumer, you have exactly the same rights as on the high street.

But before you use your credit card or bank details to purchase online, check that the site is secure and reputable. Look out for secure transaction padlock in your status bar.

The secure transaction padlock
That's important as credit card companies can refuse to pay up against fraudulent use of your card if they can prove you didn't take sufficient care whilst using your credit card online.

Check out the UK government's consumer site for more information on your rights online.

Libel and chat room behaviour
It is the responsibility of webmasters to ensure that their websites do not contain any libellous material - a statement that could be damaging to a company or individual.

This is particularly important for those who host or use chat rooms or message boards.

If you post a message that includes a libellous sentence about someone, you could be liable for prosecution, and in some cases the host of the message board can also be prosecuted.

Most message boards and chat rooms will include legal small print that frees them from accusations of libel, if they have done enough to remove the libellous remark.

However, the individual who posted the libellous remark could still be prosecuted - so remember to treat people as you would like to be treated when you're on a message board.

Also remember that an e-mail you send to a friend in private could be forwarded on and may be read by other people than those you expected - so think twice before you type.

File-sharing
Copyright is a form of legal protection that grants the creator of words, pictures and music the right to control how their creation is used.

A creator can licence or sell the right to use his/her works to another person allowing them to control how the works are used. This means that making a copy of any copyright work without the permission of the creator or whoever has the right to control that work is illegal.

Copyright protection can cover many creations including books, music, videos, DVDs, video games and films.

The problem with the internet is that it makes it very easy to make illegal copies of all these things.

This issue of copyright has been in the media a lot, especially when in comes to copying music. Online music file sharing services and other such software has made it easy to copy and exchange music online.

In the UK it is illegal to copy or distribute music without permission and even copying a track from a CD that you own to an MP3 player is an infringement of copyright.

Publishing on the internet
If you're considering building a web page or want to set up your own weblog, you should be careful exactly what you are publishing.

Any words and images that you publish on the net are subject to the same laws as magazines and newspapers in the real world.

Copying text in bulk and publishing it on your own site without permission is illegal - even if you do credit the author and link to the relevant site it came from.

But linking to content on other websites is perfectly acceptable so rather than copy, try and find the text online and link to it.

A great way to liven up your website is to include images, but be careful where you get them from. It's very easy to just click on an image and download it for your own use, but you don't own the rights.

Copying any image or text from another site without asking permission of the author is illegal without permission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/askbruce/articles/cool/law_4.shtml

No peace then? pity.

You've missed the point. We are insignificant Forums and no-one cares a hoot!

Haydock wrote:No peace then? pity.

You've missed the point. We are insignificant Forums and no-one cares a hoot!

No peace - what are you on about? I've simply posted the truth of the matter - something which you continually don't want to seem to accept.

And no I've not missed the point at all - there a lots of insignificant forums out there - some abide by the law and some don't. You're right - by enlarge nobody does give a hoot - but I don't go around breaking the law in the real world - so I don't have any desire to do it hiding behind anonymity on an internet website. That's just me, it's the way I am.

You do what you want - I ain't telling you how to live your life - all I'm saying is that if Jay Jay wants to do some of the stuff he said he does - then he should be aware that he is acting illegally and may (very unlikely I agree) personally suffer the consequences for doing so.

You say you are the founder member of a site - but you don't say if you responsible for it in terms of being the admin or a mod there - perhaps if you were personally legally liable for the content of the site you may feel differently about what stuff was actually allow on it?

I don't go around stealing stuff in real life - (maybe you do?) - so I don't encourage theft on the internet either - you obviously do!

To me it's not a question of whether you will get away with it or not - but that it is wrong to do it in the first place - and you know it to be wrong too!

OK - I really have had enough of this idiot now.

Admin - you need to stop this. I'm sure that all of the decent posters will support you.

Sluffy............ how I see it is..... jayjay doesn't need and phillidephia lawyers... he needs to get his site going..... if there are any comebacks on what he does or doesn't do... he can then address those issues as and when the arise.... there are also a number of simple things you can do to get around the copyright laws and image infringments.....! so although what you're saying may well be true.... haydock is merely pointing out the 'insignificance' of any 'offence'

josh8 wrote:Sluffy............ how I see it is..... jayjay doesn't need and phillidephia lawyers... he needs to get his site going..... if there are any comebacks on what he does or doesn't do... he can then address those issues as and when the arise.... there are also a number of simple things you can do to get around the copyright laws and image infringments.....! so although what you're saying may well be true.... haydock is merely pointing out the 'insignificance' of any 'offence'

How I see it Josh is...... Jay Jay will be the one who will be personally liable IF action is taken against the site - not Haydock.

If Jay Jay wants to take that risk - then fine - its his decision but at least he is now aware of the consequences of his actions.

Oh, and in the unlikely event that Jay Jay did get prosecuted, I don't think Haydock would be the one paying his fine - do you?

If JayJay gets a fine I'll piss on the moon!

Now, chill out and let's get back to talking about the point we got today.

Haydock wrote:If JayJay gets a fine I'll piss on the moon!

Now, chill out and let's get back to talking about the point we got today.

So breaking the law because you're unlikely to be caught is ok in your opinion?

Sluffy thinks he knows a lot about the law because he has done some three week course. I had an argument with him on a legal issue, he was totally wrong, I am a qualified lawyer, another lawyer joined in and just as they started to dispute what sluffy was saying he deleted the thread. I put up a thread to ask why, he deleted that and is now threatening to ban me from BA any chance of asylum?

hahaha....Tim...I'm suprised you've lasted this long....Manny locked 3 of my treads within a week...So I haven't really bothered...it like breeze said...a little like being in prison have your mail read...!
you'd always be welcome here Tim.... I quite like the bull you come out with....lol